.jpg)
Permitting Services Podcast
Go behind the scenes at the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services and connect with local experts about the permitting process for your commercial and residential projects.
Permitting Services Podcast
Planning a Successful Renovation
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Planning a home renovation can be exciting and overwhelming. In this episode of the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services (DPS) Podcast, host Gail Lucas sits down with DPS Residential Plan Reviewer William DeGrouchy to discuss what homeowners need to know about planning a successful home renovation in Montgomery County. They highlight preparation and what homeowners should know before applying for permits, including the essentials of a complete submittal packet, information about the new energy code, why hiring a licensed contractor is key to a successful project, and more. Previous DPS Podcast episodes have covered accessory dwelling units, eSolar, new codes, residential fast-track permits, special event permits, use and occupancy certificates, vendor licenses, and more.
Do you have a question or idea for a future DPS Podcast episode? Email your ideas and questions to dps.podcast@montgomerycountymd.gov.
The Transcript for this episode can be found here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2163316/19526791-planning-a-successful-renovation/transcript
Welcome And What DPS Reviews
Gail LucasWelcome to the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services podcast. I'm Gail Lucas. I'm also the division chief for the Customer Support and Outreach Division here at DPS. Joining us on the podcast today is Will DeGrouchy, a residential plan reviewer, who's going to talk to us about home renovations and decks and additions and good things like that. Welcome to the podcast, Will. Thank you, Gail.
William DeGrouchyIt's uh great to be here.
Gail LucasYou and I talk a whole lot about home renovations all the time because we always seem to have something breaking in our own homes.
William DeGrouchyYes, we do. And uh your your home is uh has always got work to be done at it. You're always going to have a project, so to speak. Right.
Gail LucasWell, before we get into the projects, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do at DPS, what your job entails.
William DeGrouchyOkay. Well, I'm a residential plan reviewer. Um, I've been on board with the county for about 20 years. Our job uh is to make sure minimum code is met. Um we are we we enforce the 2021 International Residential Code. So that's where our design criteria comes from um when you submit for permit here at Montgomery County.
Gail LucasRight.
Renovation Basics Budget And Research
Gail LucasWell, then let's start at the beginning. When a homeowner begins planning a renovation, what fundamentals should they be paying attention to? What fun what do they need to think about first?
William DeGrouchyWell, I mean, a lot of times with a homeowner, um, their budget is going to drive, you know, right the scope of work. It always does. And one of the big concerns is with homeowners, um, is some do do their research, some don't. Um, I think when a homeowner is making their own application, um, our job as plan reviewers um and working with the permit techs, we kind of lead the homeowner down the path of what you need, how to go about doing it. Um, some homeowners are more detailed than others, um, but we have numerous documents that DPS has to assist homeowners in their project, whether it's large scale or small scale.
Gail LucasOne of the things that we are always stressing to customers is to do their research about the person doing the work. If you're hiring a contractor, make sure they're licensed. What else do they need to think about with respect to a contractor, first of all?
William DeGrouchyAnd that's a great question. Um, when you use a licensed contractor in the state of Maryland that's licensed and certified and insured in the state of Maryland, you have you have a guarantee fund that the Department of Improvement Commission has. Right. And every contractor pays it into that when they renew their dues. That gives a homeowner the uh reassurance that if something is to go wrong, they can kind of file a claim, kind of similar to your insurance.
Gail LucasRight.
William DeGrouchyThe state does an investigation at that level, and then the state determines whether they award a decision or a monetary amount back to the homeowner. So that's the big thing in using a licensed home improvement contractor that is licensed within the state of Maryland. Um, there are a lot of benefits. No benefits when you use an unlicensed contractor. Right. Because at that point it's a civil matter. He said, she said. So always look forward to, I mean, always look at using a licensed contractor. Right. Ask for their documents,
Why Licensed Contractors Matter
William DeGrouchythe certificate of insurance, and and that's a really, really good starting point.
Gail LucasOkay. Let's talk about application. You get your application in, all of our applications are filed electronically today. Um, so once the application is in, the first stop for almost every application in DPS is zoning. Talk to us about why it's it zoning needs to look at what you're doing.
William DeGrouchyAnd and it's the the first crucial step. So zoning is a main function is to verify that if they're doing an addition, that they're working within their zone, their boundaries, their setbacks. Um, zoning is really meant for prohibiting you developing property line to property line. So a lot of things can come up in zoning easements. Um, you know, depending what zone you're in, you're gonna have different setback criteria.
Gail LucasRight.
William DeGrouchyUm, a lot of times when I get a homeowner that's just coming in, hey, Mr. DeGrouchy, I'm looking at doing this type of project, I said, Look, you're here in the office, let's speak to a zoning official. Okay. If you get a a verbal pre-approval, that's half the battle. People don't realize they want a big structure, but then they can't fit it on their property. Right. So that's the key component. If a homeowner could reach out to zoning first before even applying or looking into what they're doing, that's half their battle because then they know all right, zoning's going to approve me. The next step is designing and so forth.
Gail LucasAnd just to be clear, setback means how far you are from the property line, right?
William DeGrouchyYes, ma'am.
Gail LucasAnd their requirements for that.
William DeGrouchyYes, and and uh it's it varies. You know, Montgomery County has agricultural areas where setbacks aren't even a problem. You've got a 10-acre parcel. But if you're in downtown Bethesda, some R60 zones, you're restricted on what you can do. And believe it or not, there are lots that are real tiny, and they call those undersized lots, but there's a house on it. And so zoning pay plays the first step of any permit here at DPS.
Gail LucasOkay. We've already talked about how you need to submit your application electronically, but walk us through what the submittal package should contain. What do people need to make sure they're including?
William DeGrouchyRight.
Zoning Setbacks And Fit On Lot
William DeGrouchySo the submittal package, it's it's large in in regards to what's required. We don't break out a small project, a large project. We have one guidelines for additions and alterations. Okay. Smaller projects are quite different. Um, as homeowners engage in doing work on their house, um, for a small basement renovation, pretty cookie cutter. You're not enlarging footprint. Sure. Simple floor plan, legal size paper, 11 by 17, drawn to scale. Um, and indicating some key components, you know, the ceiling height. Um, that's a key component because it's an existing home. And when you finish an unfinished basement, some of those factors come into play. Are you doing a bedroom down there? Those those are key factors. Uh life safety, emergency egress windows. Things of that would have to be indicated on the plants.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyLarger scale, much more involved, possible architect engineer, like an addition. Um, and then a new home. Very many, not very many homeowners try to build their own home. Right. Um, and that would clearly be much more information would be required.
Gail LucasBut we do have some that is their own contractor.
William DeGrouchyYes, we do.
Gail LucasRight. Any other practical advice? I'm doing a kitchen renovation. What do I need to think about doing?
William DeGrouchyI always show homeowners is sometimes, you know, how many contractors have you interviewed? One. Okay. Right. And and then I'll I'll go into detail because homeowners are visual folks. Okay. You show them something on the computer. Yep, my house looks just like that. That's what I'm looking to do. So when they can visualize something, then they can have a better understanding, both from the requirement side and then from the designer side. But one of the biggest factors is homeowners tend to not really understand the permit process because they've never done it.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyNot every homeowner is as good as some with the computers. Sure. Um, so those are key uh issues we have when we're working with homeowners. And we try to explain look, by doing it in certain ways, you take less of a chance of having your plans denied. If your plans are denied, it's not the end of the world. You make the corrections and resubmit.
Gail LucasOkay. One of the things that change with the new codes are energy requirements and electrification, electrification partword for me to say in Montgomery County. Yes. So what are the things that people need to think about with that?
William DeGrouchyPart of the new submittal guidelines for residential projects, uh, if you do an addition, you're increasing footprint, you're increasing the demand for heating and cooling. Sure. Um, your existing system's typically
What Plans To Submit
William DeGrouchynot going to be able to handle that demand.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchySo the county has a climate action plan, and our job is to make sure we receive the minimum require uh the minimum information. So part of the climate action plans requires certain types of dimmers and certain types of electrical switches. Um, but the big difference is showing us how you're going to heat and cool that. Okay. And that requires kind of like it's a mechanical engine, uh, it's really an energy review, but we're analyzing the mechanical system to make sure the new addition um is going to be able to be heated and cooled at a comfort level. And believe it or not, people don't realize the code does indicate that you must maintain heat at a certain degree. Um those are key factors.
Gail LucasHow warm do I have to keep my house?
William DeGrouchyYour house has to be it's 68 degrees. Okay, typically three feet in from the exterior wall.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyUm, so that's sometimes why you'll see duct work and things and vents on the exterior wall.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchySo that is the minimum. Believe it or not, you do not have to put air conditioning in your house. That's that's that's an interesting thing. Yeah. With the weather coming this weekend, it's that's gonna be hot.
Gail LucasWhat else do we need to think about um when we are talking about an addition? One of the things that we have talked a lot about at DPS is sprinklering. Sprinklering our home. When is that required?
William DeGrouchyAnother great question. And and a lot of times we'll get just a cold call about hey, I got a permit for my addition. Do I need to put sprinklers in it? And the criteria for sprinklers is if you took all of the area from exterior wall to exterior wall, and you demolished 50% of all of the walls, okay, not counting the basement. Okay. So if it's a two-story home, you take the top floor off, we're right at 50%.
Gail LucasRight.
William DeGrouchyIf you exceed that threshold, the plan reviewers will advise you hey, sprinklers are going to be required. And that's one good thing that we do really good here at DPS.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyWe have a senior level residential plan review staff, and we cover all of the bases with the homeowner because the last thing they want to do is be told by the inspector, hey, now you got to sprinkle your home. But to be honest, there are times where homeowners exceed the amount of demolished, you know, the amount of uh the house they demolished, and therefore they do have to put sprinklers um after the fact. So we really do a good job trying to flag that because that is an additional cost to the homeowner in in doing the uh doing the new addition.
Gail LucasOne of the other things that's new this year or new in recent months is limits on demolition. When you need a demolition permit, even if you're doing an addition. So talk to us about the new demolition rules.
William DeGrouchyThat's a really good question. Uh when when we now have legislation in the Montgomery County Building Code that actually limits the amount of demolished uh demolishment you can do of a single family building.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyAnd it's not as complex as people think. The county has a policy of 67% of your first floor walls can be demolished. So that means you must maintain 33% of your first floor walls. And the way that we measure that is exterior wall to exterior wall. So we measure the total length of all of the walls, and then we look at the demolish
Energy Rules And Heating Requirements
William DeGrouchyuh amount of what you're demolishing, and then we also analyze what is being retained. And we have a good matrix that we actually put out to the homeowners, the builders, and so forth, that it lists linear foot of wall, linear foot of demo, and linear foot of what's being retained. And therefore, it's a simple mathematical calculation.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyAm I above 67%?
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyOr am I, you know, below that?
Gail LucasAnd that can throw you into a whole different category of permit and a whole different category of requirements.
William DeGrouchyYes. And and a great, great question because that throws you into a new home.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyAnd when you have to qualify for a new home, numerous other restrictions come into play. Right. Full-blown settlement control, land development permits, bonds. Right. Um, and then one of the things is zoning implications under today's standards, right? If you're thrown into a new home, maybe, possibly, you can't build what you want to build. Right. And when that all happens, it's it it it it definitely throws the budget out of whack for people. But the biggest concern is the fact is additional time because now you have to pull into civil engineer. Right. So um, but these are great questions. And we face these these these things every day um with projects that are either too big or whatever. And we try to give our customers good guidance.
Gail LucasAnd we have a process called pre-design consultation for residential that anyone can participate in. Um, it's free of charge to the customer, right? They can come in, they can talk through all of these issues, talk about what they want to do, talk about the implications of what they want to do, right?
William DeGrouchyYeah. It's it's something that I guess within the last two, three years that we've done here.
Gail LucasRight.
William DeGrouchyAnd I usually sit in on a lot of these meetings. And to be totally honest, they're great. They're they're able to be at the comfort of their own home. They pull their engineer or architect in in on the um on the meeting. And like you said, it doesn't cost them anything. And they get a free hour, and then we pull in our technical staff, right? We pull in um usually they fill out a a questionnaire. All right, I'm looking to get these questions answered. I have some land development zoning. Um, we even pull in a representative from WSSC.
Gail LucasOkay.
William DeGrouchyAnd I cannot tell you how many people say, this is great.
Gail LucasRight.
William DeGrouchyThis I got all my questions answered from plumbing to mechanical to zoning to sediment control and land development. I'm even well and septic. Okay. So um it's uh it's we really try to encourage it. I really think that homeowners and and even the design professionals appreciate that meaning because they get a lot of their questions up front and out the door.
Sprinklers Trigger And Demo Limits
Gail LucasLet's flip the script a little bit and talk about when you don't need a permit. What kind of work can I do as my as a homeowner in my house where I wouldn't need to come to DPS for a permit?
William DeGrouchyTypically re-shingling roofs, okay, siding, um, uh windows, doors, if the openings are not modified. So pull and replace. Okay. Okay. Bathrooms, pull and replace, okay? Kitchens, pull and replace. But as soon as you relocate fixtures, okay. I want my stove now over there, that that gets into a little bit more, and then permits would be required. Um, those are typical things that are we we kind of look at restore repair.
Gail LucasRight.
William DeGrouchyBut it's restore repair with that doesn't require a building permit. Believe it or not, we have a significant list of what requires a permit and what doesn't on our website. Um, but there's always areas where people call, well, I'm doing this and I'm doing that. Um and you try to walk them through the process and and and so forth.
Gail LucasWell, thank you, Will, for joining us today on the podcast. All valuable information. Folks can go to our website for uh submittal guidelines for information about inspections and all of those things. Yes. So all good information, and we always encourage folks to take advantage of our pre-design process. Any tips on you you said at the beginning, or you were telling me before we started recording that you had three F's. What are those three Fs for our deck?
William DeGrouchyUm we I kind of like to tell people DPS in Montgomery County um is the best in the DMV. And the reason I say that is to see the effort all our staff makes every day. We have a pre-engineered deck packet, and it allows homeowners to come in just with a site plan. And it's an installation manual. I mean, everybody's put a bookcase together and they read the directions. And in the process of getting your deck permit, once you've got it, it's typically three inspections: a footing inspection, a framing inspection, and a final. And sometimes I I'll work with homeowners. I say, look, we kind of label it the three F's, okay? But in a good way. Okay. And you know, people can look at the three F's and think about school. But the three, and and once you've elaborated that, it's three simple inspections. Okay. But it does require them to monitor the job, right?
Gail LucasRight, right.
William DeGrouchyHow well a homeowner is a construction manager, so to speak, because they're taking on these weekend warrior projects. Uh, so once you've kind of explained things to them in a simplistic way, they get it. They're like, okay, that's not that hard. I can do that.
Gail LucasAll right. Is there any last tip that you want to give to our viewers, to our listeners about doing home renovations or alterations?
William DeGrouchyYeah, I think your research at the very beginning, right? Okay. Pre-planning,
Pre-Design Consultations And No-Permit Work
William DeGrouchyum, you know, understanding what what you want, whether it's a kitchen or an addition. Most homeowners with an addition um do have some sort of contractor involved or whatever. But we do get homeowners that will get their own permit and they become like the general contractor. But then they don't have all the knowledge to deal with the plumber and the mechanical guy and the electrical guy. So, my best advice is do your work up front. Don't just choose one contractor, get three estimates. Okay. Make sure they're all licensed contractors. And I'm a type of person, if I have a big ticket item, I'm gonna put the work in to be able to see where I am, where I need to go. Right. And I think if we can educate homeowners on that part, um, they have a better understanding that it's not so hard getting a permit and it's a collaboration with DPS. It's a team effort. And we try to present that to the homeowners. It's not us against the contractors. And homeowners are typically really, really receptive to understanding the importance of why we need permits.
Gail LucasOkay. Thank you so much, Mr. DeGrouchy, for joining us today on the podcast. And thank you, our listeners, for tuning in. It's important to know when you need a permit and when you don't need a permit and why you need a permit. Remember, DPS is here to help you, our customers, succeed. You can always contact us through our Customer Service Center at MC311-DIAL 240-777-0311. Or you can come into our office at 2425 Reedy Drive on the seventh floor. We're here Monday through Friday from 7:30
Deck Packet Inspections And Wrap-Up
Gail Lucasa.m. to 4 o'clock p.m. And there's always someone here that can help you and answer questions and point you in the right direction. Again, thank you for joining us today. Got an idea for a topic for a podcast, or do you have a question that you'd like to see answered on a podcast? We want to hear from you. Email your ideas and questions to dps.podcast at MontgomeryCountymd.gov. Please help us spread the word about the podcast. Share it with your friends and your neighbors, and subscribe so that you always get the latest episode. I'm Gail Lucas. Remember, DPS is your project partner.
AnnouncerThis podcast is brought to you by County Cable Montgomery, your source for news and information from the Montgomery County government. Connect with us via cable, Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube by searching for County Cable Moco.