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Permitting Services Podcast
Go behind the scenes at the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services and connect with local experts about the permitting process for your commercial and residential projects.
Permitting Services Podcast
Decks, Patios, and Outdoor Projects
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As warmer weather arrives, many residents are heading outdoors to refresh their yards and outdoor living spaces. In this episode of the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services (DPS) Podcast, host Gail Lucas sits down with DPS Residential Field Supervisor Jeremy Shupp to explain what homeowners need to know about permits and inspections for popular outdoor projects such as decks, fences, patios, pergolas, and sheds. They also share information about the popular residential deck maintenance inspection program, which takes place during Building Safety Month in May, and provide guidance about the importance of hiring a licensed contractor.
Previous DPS Podcast episodes have covered accessory dwelling units, eSolar, new codes, residential fast-track permits, special event permits, use and occupancy certificates, vendor licenses, and more.
Do you have a question or idea for a future DPS Podcast episode? We would like to hear from you. Email us at dps.podcast@montgomerycountymd.gov.
A transcript for this episode is available here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2163316/19021258-decks-patios-and-outdoor-projects/transcript
Welcome And Spring Projects
Gail LucasWelcome to the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services podcast. I'm Gail Lucas, your host. I'm also the division chief for the Customer Support and Outreach Division here at DPS. Joining us on the podcast today is returning guest, Jeremy Shupp, who is one of our field supervisors for residential inspection. Yes?
Jeremy ShuppYes, ma'am.
Gail LucasSpring has sprung, y'all. And if you're like me, you're ready to start digging in the dirt and doing home projects. So Jeremy is going to talk to us today about spring projects that we're thinking about decks, patios, sunrooms, and how we go about doing that safely and correctly. Welcome, Jeremy.
When You Need A Permit
Gail LucasThanks for coming back.
Jeremy ShuppYeah, great to be here. Thanks for having me for this important and timely discussion as the weather warms and people spend more time in their backyards.
Gail LucasAll right. Well, let's start with the big question. Do we need permits for our decks, for our sheds, for our gazebos?
Jeremy ShuppYes, you do. Um, Montgomery County building permits are required uh virtually for any decks, no matter how high they are off the ground. Uh, if your deck includes stairs with lighting, a hot tub, outdoor electrical items, then you may also need an electrical permit.
Gail LucasThis is one of the things that I'm thinking about doing. What about a fence? I need to replace my fence.
Jeremy ShuppSo that gets a little bit trickier. Um, however, if you have an existing fence that was permitted and you replace it in kind with the same size and material, uh, an additional fence permit would not be required. Okay. However, if you change the style or you're changing the location, then a new permit would be required for that.
Gail LucasOkay. Even if I'm changing the style. So that's important. So if I'm going from a wood fence to what is it now? Polyurethane, whatever the fences are made of now, I need a new fence permit.
Jeremy ShuppCorrect.
Gail LucasOkay. All right. Beyond safety, permits ensure that we're meeting zoning, that we're meeting setbacks, that we are in compliance with the code. And remember, folks, homeowner association rules do apply. So it is possible that my homeowner association has different rules, or maybe not even different rules, but has additional rules that would apply to my decks, my sheds. How does that factor into the permitting process?
Jeremy ShuppSo with homeowners associations, you do want to check to make sure of their requirements. They may they might require something that uh DPS might not. They might have certain uh setbacks on their property that we would not require.
Gail LucasOkay, that's important to know because it could be a little bit different than what the code calls for, right? Absolutely. Okay. The application process for permits is all electronic, as you all know. Folks that have been watching and listening to our podcast
HOA Rules And Setbacks
Gail Lucasknow that DPS has an electronic permit process. Can you walk us through that a little bit? Give us a little bit of information about that.
Jeremy ShuppSo, as far as yeah, the one-line process, you would you go into our website and sign on. You'd have to create an account to pull a permit for various projects in the county.
Gail LucasOkay. If I'm doing a deck, for instance, do I have to draw that deck from scratch? Do I need to have a contractor give you drawings? Is there some help that you can give me on doing my deck?
Jeremy ShuppActually, yes, there is. So on our on our website, we actually have a um residential deck details package. So for Montgomery County residents, and this is for single-level rectangular decks. So it's the more of the
Online Permits And Deck Plans
Jeremy Shuppsimple, simple deck project, but you can use our deck details in lieu of um any kind of cool, full custom drawings.
Gail LucasDoes that make my process go faster if I use deck details?
Jeremy ShuppYes, it would. So that review process is a lot faster since we already have the deck details. It's already been basically approved at that point. Okay. So if you're building it to the deck details, that process would go a lot faster.
Gail LucasOkay. And again, that's just for very simple, straightforward rectangular decks.
Jeremy ShuppSingle level rectangular, yes, ma'am.
Gail LucasOkay, if I'm doing something fancy with my deck, I still need to submit plans and all of that, right?
Jeremy ShuppThat's correct.
Gail LucasOkay. Um, another thing that I wanted to talk about are um how often do we have problems with permits? How often are we seeing stuff being constructed, particularly in the summertime, um, without permits? And what happens then?
Jeremy ShuppSo um our our code enforcement is all um complaint-based. So we're not out there driving up and down the street looking for issues. However, if a neighbor uh submits a service request to 311, then we will do our due diligence. We'll stop by, take a look, see if what they are doing does require a permit. Uh, if it does and they don't have a permit, then we go to the next stage that that would be a notice of violation and an abatement to get a permit for what they're doing.
Gail LucasComing up in May is Building Safety Month. Um, it is an annual celebration of all things building, um, where we're emphasizing codes and safety and doing projects the right way. I know DPS has in the past done free deck inspections during Building Safety Month. Are we planning to do that again this year?
Jeremy ShuppYes, we are. Uh so that program is going to kick off on Friday, May 1st. Um, it's going to be limited to the first 300 requests. So if uh if you had one last year, you would not be eligible again this year.
Gail LucasOkay.
Jeremy ShuppUm, however, you can go on to you can call 311 or you can go onto our website to request uh a deck maintenance inspection.
Gail LucasTalk a little bit about what you're looking for when you're inspecting decks. What what are the the big things that we need to make sure that we include on our deck?
Jeremy ShuppOkay, so as far as um the deck maintenance inspection would go, uh that's more of an observation. So it's not like a structural, we're not engineers, we're just kind of making a visual observation of what we see. But um the thing you want to keep keep track of the most is going to be the deck uh the deck ledger attachment. So that's what what the deck the deck ledger is how it attaches to your home.
Gail LucasOkay.
Jeremy ShuppSo if if you notice that there's not a beam uh close to your house, it's probably attached directly to the house itself. Um at that point, uh you want to make sure that that is is very well, very well installed.
Gail LucasAnd then one of the things I look for on my deck and and in fact replaced is the decking itself. It was looking like it was getting rotted or it had mildew on it. Talk about a little bit of deck maintenance. What should homeowners make sure that they look for before they start using their deck for the season?
Jeremy ShuppUm, so you want to look for any rotten boards, any any splintering, stuff like that. Um, so the more simpler ones, you might be able to do a little uh minor sanding to get that to get that roughness out of there. If uh if you're looking at
Unpermitted Work And Enforcement
Jeremy Shupplike a full crack board, yeah, we would recommend replacing that for sure. You don't want to um get a splinter or or hurt yourself that way or trip hazard.
Gail LucasAnd for that kind of stuff, do I need a full-blown permit if I'm replacing boards? Um, or is it just about replacing the whole deck?
Jeremy ShuppYes. So uh if you're just replacing decking boards only, a permit would not be required. Okay. That permit requirement kicks in with uh your structural issues. So your your beams and your guardrails, uh stairways, replacement.
Gail LucasTalk a little bit about what you're looking for, what our inspectors are looking for when they're inspecting decks.
Jeremy ShuppOkay, so um a deck is typically broken into three inspections. So the first is uh going to be a footing inspection. So that's gonna verify you know the depth and size of the footings to make sure that that's correct. Uh secondly, we would do a framing inspection. Okay. So that would include, you know, the size of the beam, size of the joists, uh, the spans, um, verifying that deck ledger attachment. Okay. So when uh when you have a permitted deck, it's important to remember in Montgomery County, we do have an executive regulation that um only through bolting is allowed for deck ledger attachments. So uh we do not allow the use of uh ledger locks or just lag screws into into your home. Uh finally,
Building Safety Month Deck Inspections
Jeremy Shuppwould be uh a final inspection. So this is where we're checking the guardrail, the railings, checking for that all-important four-inch gap. So you know, a child can't fit through and potentially fall there. Um, we'd be looking for the stairways and and all your guardrail heights as well at that time.
Gail LucasOkay. So decks are not the only projects that folks do in the in the spring or think about doing gazebos, putting in sheds, all of these things require permits, correct?
Jeremy ShuppUm, mostly of what you spoke on, yeah. So like a shed or a pergola, like the pre-manufactured stuff. Okay. Uh, we do we do want to see a permit there to verify site location and hold downs as well. Want to make sure that these things aren't, you know, high winds were going to be blowing over in your neighbor's yard and stuff like that. So um, as far as like a patio, so like a hardscape or um paving stones or poured concrete, that would not require a permit. Um, and you can even go uh a retaining wall less than 36 inches from the grade would also not require a retaining wall permit for that.
Gail LucasAnd some of these are DIY. I like to think of myself as a DIYer, but it's not save money when you can. I ain't that great at DIY. But these are projects that homeowners sometimes do themselves. They still need permits, yes.
Jeremy ShuppUm, for the for the decks
Deck Safety Checks That Matter
Jeremy Shuppand for the sheds, uh, pergolas, yes. Now for your hardscaping, like your landscaping walls and you know, paver stones would not need a permit for those things.
Gail LucasOne of the questions we often get is do these projects require me to get a licensed contractor? Talk to us about licensed contractors versus okay someone else.
Jeremy ShuppSo um, anybody that is pulling a or obtaining a building permit, it has to be the actual homeowner or a licensed MHIC contract.
Gail LucasOkay, MHIC is Maryland Home Improvement Commission license, correct?
Jeremy ShuppYes, yeah. So it's important to make sure that they are licensed and insured, you know, for your benefit as well.
Gail LucasAnd for our listeners, it's important that you check that. It's important that you ask for that. Um, a licensed contractor will not hesitate to give you that information. You can double check it with us um in our office. So make sure that you look for that. That is your protection if something goes wrong or if something isn't quite the way you want it to be, correct?
Jeremy ShuppAbsolutely. And sometimes um we we got some contractors out there that might try to push the homeowner towards getting the permit in their name because they might not be licensed and insured themselves. So that's just one kind of thing to look out for when you're dealing with a contract.
Gail LucasWhat about paving my driveway? If I'm resurfacing my driveway, is that something that I need a permit for?
Jeremy ShuppWell, that depends on how close you get to the road area, the roadway. So as long as you're not um disturbing the apron uh close to the roadway, a permit would not be required. Okay. Um, but once you start to get into that area with the apron, uh, then right of way would need to be contacted.
Gail LucasOkay. These are all projects that people think about doing your yard cleanup or doing refreshing your home, power washing and the and those kinds of things during the spring, right? We just want to
Sheds Contractors Driveways And Wrap-Up
Gail Lucasmake sure that folks are getting the correct permits. But the rule of thumb is if it's structural, then you definitely need a permit, right?
Jeremy ShuppYes, absolutely.
Gail LucasIf you're touching beams, if you're touching footings, if you're touching things that hold up your deck, you want to make sure that you are getting a permit so that we can look at that kind of thing.
Jeremy ShuppAbsolutely.
Gail LucasOkay. What else, Jeremy? What else do people need to think about when they when they're thinking about these projects or they're talking about doing some spring refresh?
Jeremy ShuppI mean, decks are the biggest thing for us, of course. Uh, with with people, you know, got more people coming over, visit, you're going to have your barbecue. So um be sure to reach out to us uh starting on Friday, May 1st for that deck maintenance inspection. Uh it's it is limited to 300, so you got to get your request in early. And uh we'd be happy to come out, take a take a look, and uh give you any recommendations as to what you can do to keep it safe and and maintain well.
Gail LucasOkay, and those deck, those deck inspections are very popular, so please get your requests in early. Uh, we get a lot of requests for those, and sometimes we have to refuse, folks, because we hit the we hit the cutoff number fairly quickly. Yes, ma'am. Okay, thank you so much, Jeremy.
Jeremy ShuppYes, ma'am. It's a good to be here.
Gail LucasWe'll look for you to we'll look for you again. You can come back again, but thank you so much. And to you, our listeners, remember DPS is here to help you with all of your projects, with advice, with permitting, with some suggestions on how to make your project better, how to make your project safer, and how to succeed in doing your spring projects. It's important to know when to get a permit and why you need a permit. If you have any questions about permitting pro about the permitting process, please reach out to us. We are here Monday through Friday, 7.30 a.m. to 4 o'clock p.m., 2425 Reedie Drive on the seventh floor. We're open 7:30 a.m. to 4 o'clock p.m. Someone is always here in person to help you answer those questions. You can give us a call. You can reach out to MC311 to talk with someone if you have more questions. Please check out the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services website, Montgomery County MD.gov forward slash DPS to find information and resources to help you with your next project. And if you have an idea or a topic you'd like to see us discuss on our podcast, or you have a question for an upcoming podcast, we want to hear from you. Email your ideas and questions to dps.podcast at MontgomeryCountymd.gov. And if you found this podcast helpful, please subscribe, share it with others, share it with your friends, with your family, with your homeowners association, so that you can always get the latest episodes. Until next time, I'm Gail Lucas. Thank you again, Jeremy Shupp. Remember, DPS is your project partner.
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